AI Announcer (00:09)
All right, listen up. Welcome to prompt this. This is the podcast for all you business leaders out there who are just done with the AI hype and are ready for the real deal. And guess what? I'm your AI intro voice this week and I'm thrilled to be here. Now, let me tell you about Greg. He's your seasoned go-to guy. The one you want by your side when it comes to scaling those sales teams and cracking that Silicon Valley playbook.
Seriously, he's got the goods. And then there's Clint. my gosh, he's a successful startup veteran. This guy takes big ideas and turns them into thriving ventures like it's nothing. They're here to cut through all that noise, right? They're bringing you the analysis and the playbooks you need to use AI to launch new ideas, scale your business, and listen, stop getting left behind. This is your time. So.
Without further ado, here are your amazing hosts.
Shelli Hendricks (01:12)
Thanks.
Clint (01:14)
This is Clint.
Greg (01:15)
This is Greg.
Clint (01:17)
Great show today. We did a very different topic than we have in the past. We dug into executive coaching and how AI impacts executive coaching. And our guests today shared some great insights around where you should look to AI in coaching and where you should avoid it. was just a great conversation all around.
Greg (01:39)
Yeah, and I like talking about the future of AI augmented leaders. That one was interesting. So let's get into the show.
Clint (01:48)
Let's do it.
Greg (01:53)
Today we've got Dr. Shelley Hendricks with us, executive coach, PhD in organizational development and change, American Management Association faculty member, and founder of Blue Horizon Solutions. She's coached leaders through big transformations, tough conversations, and those moments where the human side of leadership really show up. With AI suddenly acting like everyone's thought partner, we wanted to ask a simple question.
What does real executive coaching look like now? So we brought in Shelly. Shelly, we're excited to have you here.
Shelli Hendricks (02:29)
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Clint (02:31)
on. This is a fun topic, a little bit off the standard sales and marketing that we've been doing for a long time, Greg, and kind of digging into the human side of AI. I think that's a great discussion for us today.
Greg (02:42)
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. As executives, both Clint, you and I, we both had executive coaches and sessions throughout the years and AIs here. So things are different and we want to know, like, can AI even play a role in it? Or is this something that that's still 100 % human? So we're going to dive into these topics here, but Shelley, before we do that, why don't you tell the listeners, you know, who you are?
describe the work you do with leaders and so we can get to know you really quick before we jump in.
Shelli Hendricks (03:18)
Well, as someone who has worked with and coached leaders inside organizations and have studied leaders for over 20 years, I'm extremely passionate about the human side of leadership and about equipping leaders to be able to create waves of positive change for future generations. think tools like AI can definitely be utilized by leaders, but we want to keep our leaders human as well.
Greg (03:47)
Right. you know, coaching's everywhere. We all say we're coaches. I'm a coach. You're a coach when we're coaching reps, coaching other managers. You know, we all, we all have.
Clint (03:58)
My kids were pretty clear on that one. I'm not allowed to be a coach anymore.
Shelli Hendricks (04:02)
You it.
Greg (04:04)
Uncoached. That's great. But you know, there's different kinds of coaching. So why don't you tell us a little bit about, you know, your view on on the different types of coaching and where executive coaching really fits in on the ladder there.
Shelli Hendricks (04:17)
Yeah, thank you. β We all use coaching skills, as you mentioned. My dad's not allowed to be a coach anymore either. β But we encourage managers and leaders to use coaching skills. We want them to be having coaching conversations with their employees and with each other even. But the difference is what we call capital C coaching or what I call a capital C coaching is coaches
who are credentialed, educated, trained in the practices and the ethics of coaching have literally practiced holding space for the leader to do the discovery. β I think of the coach as like a sherpa, and we talked a little bit about this metaphor before, but as your executive coach, I'm your sherpa. I have a...
Big backpack full of tricks and tips and tools. And I know the route that you're wanting to navigate. I know where the base camp is. I know the best possible paths for the weather conditions and things like that. But it's your journey and it's your adventure. I'm here to support you and accompany you on the mission and give you some guidance and direction.
Clint (05:40)
So what would be some of the biggest misconceptions leaders have about what executive coaching is supposed to be?
Shelli Hendricks (05:49)
I would say the first one that comes to mind is that coaching is not punishment. You're not in trouble just because it's not like being sent to the principal's office. It's not like being sent to HR. An executive coach is really a resource for leaders to use to grow and learn. to become better.
Greg (06:14)
Yeah, that's great. Yeah, my experiences with it, it really is something that kind of takes you off the day to day and put, you know, just changes you into a spot where you're just ready to learn and be, you know, get to a different spot without the grind of the day to day just β in your face. And a coaching session or sessions can really change you as an executive.
Clint (06:39)
Yeah, I definitely grew a lot with my my coach Alan. He he was very helpful
Shelli Hendricks (06:46)
wonder if that's the goal.
Clint (06:47)
There you go. So let's pull this towards AI. How do you see AI fitting into the world of executive coaching these days? What are you seeing on the ground?
Shelli Hendricks (06:56)
Yeah, I'm really excited about this topic actually. And the more I learn and read about it, the more excited I get. So you mentioned my work with American Management Association. So I lead, β facilitate a lot of the leadership programs at all levels of leadership. have a number of different courses you can take. With many of those courses, there is a tool
that has been recently launched that is called Skill Coach. It's AMA Skill Coach. And for let's say transition to manager types of courses. First time manager β hasn't given feedback on performance before, hasn't given a coaching conversation before. There's this AI skill.
Clint (07:44)
remembering the first time I did that.
Greg (07:46)
Yeah, these could be scary. These could be really scary moments for the manager.
Shelli Hendricks (07:50)
Yeah, you get flashbacks, right? When you
Clint (07:54)
I overcorrected, I got all stern and anyways.
Shelli Hendricks (07:57)
It's easy to do, especially if you're inexperienced, you're lacking confidence, but you want to go in like you what you're doing, right? Well, the SkillCoach is really cool because what it is, it's an AI avatar and you log in to the tool just like you're logging into a virtual meeting like this. And you have this conversation. It's a simulated conversation with an employee.
that's already programmed and based on how you introduce the conversation, how you navigate different parts of the conversation, the tool will analyze what you say, how you responded, and then at the end it will give you feedback on how you did and what you could do to be better next time without having to have an impact on a real employee. So to me-
That's amazing, right? You can practice, you can get better, you can take it multiple times, and then you can go have the real conversation with your employee once you feel more confident.
Greg (09:09)
That's really being able to take it multiple times. Yeah. Yeah. everybody doesn't click with everybody at the same time. And sometimes you're being coached by your own boss that has a completely different personality. Yeah. Coaching you differently. you know, that's great.
Clint (09:09)
I like this.
Shelli Hendricks (09:26)
Yeah, so I think that's one really great application for practice, simulations, things like that, as well as for helping leaders to do what I'm going to call mundane tasks, right? So time management, prioritization, looking for patterns, things like that. Even looking for our own beliefs and biases that might be, we might be, they might be unconscious to us. What are those?
unconscious biases and other beliefs that might be interfering or keeping us from performing at the level we want to, and we believe we are often. Those unconscious things. So AI can show us what are those patterns of behavior.
where I think
AI shifts the leadership competencies is, there's some really interesting studies that I want to mention when it's time to get to that. But one key takeaway is AI can help human leaders become even more human. And I love that.
Greg (10:42)
Yeah, that's gonna be interesting.
Shelli Hendricks (10:45)
That means by taking away the mundane, know, administrivia types of tasks, leaders can focus on being human and connecting with their people on the levels that that technology is unable to.
Clint (11:04)
Yeah, and being able to make that available not just to senior executives who have an admin, but all managers and all leaders in the organization who can spend more time with their people. I like that.
Shelli Hendricks (11:18)
That's right. And it puts the emphasis on what is a good leader onto the more human qualities. And I really appreciate that as well.
Greg (11:27)
Yeah. You know, it's interesting. β you know, Clint, you, you, messed around with this a little bit at the very beginning, you know, you know, ChatGPT is supposed to be your, your thought leader, your coach, your, your sidekick teach you everything and walk you through life. So, you know, in management, β it's supposed to just replace people like Shelley.
Clint (11:50)
Well, I'll tell you the story. Yeah, so the very first kind of advanced AI exercise I did after I was learning to use ChatGPT for more than just search, I set up a project inside of ChatGPT. And in that project, I uploaded my... I'd done various novelty profiles over the years, right? I had my disk profile, I had my Myers...
Briggs profile, had something, fivestrengths.com or something like that. I had these different descriptions of myself and I uploaded those and I gave it prompt instructions for the project of act like my executive coach and help me do a better job of working with the people around me and that sort of thing. And then I took that prompt and I passed it through CHEP GPT to make it better. So that was all, I did all the right steps.
to set up this executive coach. And then I never used it again. And well, I don't know. Maybe it's just me, right? I'm probably one of your typical clients. I'm a little bit further along in my career, and I feel like I don't need a lot of coaching at this point. I'm sure you're...
Greg (12:55)
So it was that good.
one before showing.
Shelli Hendricks (13:14)
almost every time.
Clint (13:15)
Exactly.
Or the other one that was kind of running through my head is everybody I'm working with right now are all people I've had long-term relationships with, right? I'm not trying to figure out who they are and how to work best with them, for the most part. By and large, the people I work with day in, day out, Greg and Barbara, our brand architect and others, these are all people I've known for a long time. so I kind of just, I don't know, I didn't feel like I needed it, but...
I bet you hear that whether it's an AI coach or you as a human coach. I'm sure you hear all those excuses, but in the end, I just ended up not using it. I got some other thoughts, but I'm curious what you think about what I said so far.
Shelli Hendricks (14:00)
Yeah, think we hear all of those resistance comments and reluctance to use developmental resources of any kind. And I think it's just a human resistance to change at some level. And β I think some leaders aren't sure what to expect. And so there's some hesitation at times.
But leaders who have experienced the transformative nature of coaching want more of it in my experience. And so if you've had a coach and you've had a good coach who's helped you move forward in your career and your thinking, people want more of it typically.
Clint (14:46)
Well, the other part I ran into when I test drove it was all the answers were just super happy. you're so smart, That's a great question, Clint. You're asking all the right things, Clint. And I remember I referred to him earlier, Alan, my executive coach many years back. β He pushed me. Yeah, he wasn't sitting there giving me bunch of happy talk. He was digging into what was going on and really kind of
pushing me hard and I just, didn't find that at all with ChatGPT.
Shelli Hendricks (15:19)
Yeah, that's one of the dangers of AI that's actually called out in some of the literature β that AI can create sort of this echo chamber where it's just self-reinforcing β telling you they're designed to please, right? The elements are designed to please and to reinforce. And again, if we're not calling out our biases and our beliefs that are not serving us well, β
The AI tools aren't designed to correct us in some of those ways.
Greg (15:55)
I think about some of the things, issues and change management and these projects that, you know, are very complex, especially when it comes to human behavior and having to, you know, move an entire organization and one, you know, from one direction to another one. β I think about, you know, the times like even, you know, the audience knows I've worked with Shelley before and β we're usually working on some
pretty complex β issues. β Do you think AI can tackle them at that level?
Shelli Hendricks (16:33)
I think not yet. think right now, what I've seen at least, the AI tools I have experienced are really good at, as I said, simulated skill, β analyzing behavior, giving you feedback, looking for patterns, identifying patterns and things like that, if patterns of behavior, mean.
But I think where we still require the human interaction, the human connection is in the more subtle nuanced behaviors where you mentioned change management is a big one that comes to mind. I don't know about you, but I want leaders who are aware, meaning self-aware and context aware, situationally aware.
I want leaders who are wise, not just knowledgeable. Technical expertise is the price of admission these days, right? You have to know your stuff or you don't get in the door. But that's not the same as wisdom. Wisdom is more developed and it's a more inner knowing and again, more complex knowing that humans have.
that so far AI haven't seen in the AI yet. So it's that combination of knowledge and lived experience that shows up as in some models we call it substance, right, or wisdom. And then the third factor that I really want in my leaders, I want to see compassion. I want to be able, that doesn't mean you have to be touchy feely or those things that sometimes we shy away from.
but I want a leader who β can connect in the heart and lead heart-centered, human-centered leadership. And I'll tell you, in my research for my dissertation, I interviewed leaders during the pandemic. I interviewed leaders to understand what they were learning about leading teams and what they were learning about themselves.
And all of them reported a desire to double down on their values. So really going back to fundamental, who am I, how do I lead, how do I want to show up? And we lead human beings. I want to connect with the human being on the other side of the technology, if you're working remotely or on the other side of the conference table, if you're in person.
But I want to connect with the human being. And I want to know that my leader gets me, understands me, cares, and has my back.
Clint (19:35)
I think that's what I want out of my coach as well. It felt very fake trying to describe some very β human-centered problems to the AI and say, me solve that and know in the background there's just some algorithm spitting out the next most real
Shelli Hendricks (19:40)
That's right.
Greg (19:55)
Yeah, you really want to believe it's helping and you really want to believe it's understanding for one or two responses until the third one comes and you realize, yeah, this is a machine. Yeah, exactly. It's just really tough. So, Shelley, I know you spend a lot of time really learning about human behavior and beyond that. What kind of studies have you
Now come across that maybe talk about how AI is influencing some decisions or just how we operate in business.
Shelli Hendricks (20:33)
Yeah, there are a couple of studies that are really interesting to me and maybe they'll be interesting to you and to your audience as well. So this one study that was conducted at MIT and the researcher released some early findings as a warning to people working in this space. And so what she did was she analyzed three groups of students who were all asked to write an essay.
One group was asked to use ChatGPT only, and specifically they were using ChatGPT for writing their essay. The second group was asked to use their brain only, like no tools, their brain only. And then the third group was a hybrid. They used their brain at first, their own thinking brain first, and then they could use tools to augment or supplement.
the writing. And what they found that they were also measuring the electroencephalogram, which is the electrical activity of the brain while they were doing these activities. And what was really interesting to me is that not only were the essays that were done through AI were predictable, they were pretty similar, they all sounded the same, but there was also-
Clint (21:59)
And dashes in there.
Shelli Hendricks (22:02)
There was a lot less electrical activity in the brain of the people who are writing the essays using ChatGPT than the people who are actually using their own brain. So I think it's really interesting to correlate that with some of the other research that's happening in the world around things like dementia and Alzheimer's and brain health. So I'll pause there and let you guys, I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
Clint (22:29)
Because I do a lot of writing with with ChatGPT right every day. I'm generating documents and I'm β Exploring ideas and that sort of thing. Yeah, and I'm wondering is it just Who turned out
Greg (22:40)
Do we need a brain scan?
the Yeah, these people with the poor brain scan, end up on the sales side. They cheated on the test.
Shelli Hendricks (22:53)
I'm β
Clint (22:57)
And then what I find is I spend a lot less time wordsmithing. I spend a lot less time trying to come up with the organizational structure of my ideas. And I spend more time
almost kind of like managing an employee, you know, managing a writer, like, no, I want to go this direction. No, want to go that direction. No, let's pull it back here. No, that doesn't make sense. Or, ah, completely wrong intro. And I spend time, and I feel like I'm using my brain on this. And I don't know if I'm using less of my brain power to manage the creation process than doing the creation process itself. But I got to tell you, I'm tired at the end of the day.
I feel like I've created a lot of work, good work, but I don't know. I wonder about this topic all the time. It's a hot debate in the house with young adults, my kids who, I got one kid who's got no problem using the tools for everything like I do, and I get another kid who says, absolutely not, I'm a great writer. I am never gonna use AI to help me write.
Shelli Hendricks (24:07)
Well, and you want it to be your own unique contribution. think a lot of authors want that, right? I know I do, but that doesn't mean don't use it, right? I think that to your point, using the AI tools as a thought partner or as, you know, help me to develop an outline, here's what I want to say. But I think the point I'm taking away from this is let's be intentional about what we're using AI to do.
and how we're using AI as a thought partner, recognizing that just like when we first started using smartphones, just like when we first started using GPS and other tools, we sort of lose that or we forget how to remember a phone number, right? I mean, do you remember phone numbers, either? I still remember my phone number from high school, but I...
Clint (25:00)
Yeah, that's the truth. I remember my iPhone.
Shelli Hendricks (25:03)
And I certainly don't remember your phone number, right? So I think that how we use the tools changes how we think and how we think changes how we use the tools.
Greg (25:15)
That's really interesting. Yeah. You know what? While you're saying that, it really kind of got me thinking, you know, executives and you get up to these executive levels because you have talent in certain places and you're not going to replace that with, you know, just execution, right? Yeah. So, know, the real secret sauce that you have to lead or got you leading the organization is your talents in the subject matter.
And you can't pass that over to the machine, at least not yet. I don't know about you, Clint. β
Clint (25:52)
β No, definitely not. think humans bring judgment, right? These AI tools are really good at bringing different β possibilities to the table and maybe even suggesting which one's right, but that human judgment is pretty darn key. And then I think there's a whole world coming ahead of us where everybody's going to have to learn how to manage AI. The way I describe managing AI as a document
creation partner and helping me go through thoughts. think that the skill of managing the AI is one that we're all just kind at the front end of in our experience. And it's going to be, I think that's going to be a key aspect coming ahead.
Shelli Hendricks (26:40)
I completely agree with that. And the other study I wanted to mention came from a Harvard Business Review webinar with the authors of β a book that I think was published last year. And the book title is More Human, colon, How the Power of AI Can Transform the Way You Lead. So I'm intrigued. I haven't read the book yet, but this webinar was talking about their findings and the research that they conducted.
And as I alluded to earlier, a couple of their findings were AI can make humans more human. For all the reasons we talked about earlier, AI poses real risks to the mind of the leader. And that goes back to that echo chambers, reinforcing beliefs and biases, cognitive laziness, which we just talked about, and human disconnection, which we talked about earlier.
The third finding was that the future belongs to AI augmented leaders. And there's a whole set of competencies around that that they found and goes back to your, again, awareness, wisdom, and compassion. And then the final finding that they talk about in this book is in the age of AI, a leader's competitive advantage comes from the inner development.
the work they do on themselves as being a human leader. And I just love that.
Greg (28:09)
You know, I'm starting to lean towards the conclusion that we might've found the one practice so far that AI doesn't lead in or doesn't have a place yet. I don't know about you, Clint.
Clint (28:24)
I think that's got to be the case. know, think that... complex? Well, it's complex, but you know, hey, I got to tell you, never doubt our ability to model the complex in the machine world. Yes. At some point, we'll tackle all that. But I think the... the wanting, you know, humans need humans. People want to work with people aspect. The, you know...
Greg (28:28)
That is...
Clint (28:52)
Like, what have we all learned ourselves in the last year? How to spot AI fake videos. Right? That's kind of been part of the, know, in my mind, one of the main outcomes of 2025 is I now have learned how to spot an AI video very quickly. And I think people are developing that sense of being able to spot AI very quickly and kind of just discounting it as secondary, as fake.
as not the real deal. And when it comes to executive coaching, I want the real deal.
Greg (29:28)
Right exactly exactly let's talk about that for a minute with with you know executive coaching What what I found in my career is depending what the culture is in your company Decative culture is you executive coaching is either baked in and part of the management, you know path or You're in probably like a you know, just something that's running so fast and
That part is assumed. The management should be these things.
Clint (30:03)
world do you work in where it's baked in? Because it's never been baked in in any of the startups that I work at.
Greg (30:09)
That's how I met Shelly at the right place at the right time of my career. So it was in our culture at the time, but then, yeah, you look at most Silicon Valley companies or any tech company now they're running so much faster than even the SaaS companies are. And every C level organization wants their management team to get better and be better. But what I found was in some of the organizations where they didn't know a lot about that.
You had to raise your hand and ask for these things. they would, they would definitely, you know, approve it. They all want better, better management heads running their, business. So, uh, know, Shelley, why don't you tell us a little bit about, know, where executive coaching really. Bits and when, when, when leaders should think about, you know, tackling or bringing it in to help them tackle, uh, issues.
Shelli Hendricks (31:06)
Yeah, thank you for the question. It's an important question. We know from research and from lived experience, probably all of us on the call, that there are some significant transition points where some kind of developmental support, i.e. coaching, is particularly helpful. And that is, we call them the turns in the leadership pipeline. So for example,
That very first transition from individual contributor to frontline supervisor, manager, whatever your organization calls that role. That move from individual contributor to leader of people is such a complex and large leap in terms of mindset shift for anyone, any human being, right?
So having some support, having somebody who's gone before you and is experienced or at least witnessed those kinds of what the challenges can be is super helpful. And then similarly at other transitions later in one's career, but I would also add in times of transformation. So if you're leading change, mergers and acquisitions, β divesting,
any of those big transformations and transactions that can happen in organizations, you're buying a company, selling a company, growing and scaling a company, you're leading differently and it requires a different skill set.
Clint (32:50)
So, okay, perfect opening there. We're going through a massive transformation in how we all work today with AI. What is your recommendation to the leaders that you're coaching on how to navigate that change in the way we work?
Shelli Hendricks (33:05)
Yeah, don't think of AI as either or, meaning AI augmented leaders, it means we're adopting the technology, but you're also continuing to do the interpersonal work. So you're continuing to grow your human capability as well, and you're looking for what are those new emerging competencies that maybe haven't been as important before. β
or haven't been as emphasized before in some organizations. But that doesn't mean you're not doing one or the other, you're doing both.
Greg (33:44)
Are seeing any patterns with some of the people that you've, you know, more recently coached that where they're, they're just very curious where, just what to do with AI.
Shelli Hendricks (33:56)
I think a lot of people are very curious about it and experimental and that's wonderful. This is how we learn. There's some fun in playing with new tools and technology and what can I get it to do? And I think that's fantastic because again, that's experimentation, that's how we learn. You think about kids, right? Kids learn by trying new things and try it on, try it out, test it. And I think that that's good and healthy.
Clint (34:26)
Well, as we wrap up here, Shelley, β one last question for you. What's the one message you want leaders to walk away with today about executive coaching in the age of AI?
Shelli Hendricks (34:39)
Yeah, your competitive advantage is to use AI to augment your leadership strengths.
Greg (34:51)
Okay, it's time for this week's AI Challenge. Now the AI Challenge is a takeaway assignment for our listeners to get their hands on some AI tools and do some exercises.
Clint (35:01)
For today's AI challenge, we're going to pick up on what our guest was describing today in terms of augmented AI leadership. We're going to go through an exercise where you dictate a recent situation into AI, use AI to get it all written up nicely, get some feedback from AI around the skills that you deployed there, and then also explore where the best time is to start working with a human coach on the same situation.
Greg (35:30)
Yeah, look down into the show notes and you'll find a link that goes right to the blog. It's got all the instructions that you're going to need. Now, if you've just finished an AI deployment within your business, we'd love to hear about your experience, the good, the bad, all of it. So go to www.promptthis.ai, go to the Contact Us page, fill out the form and we'll be in touch to talk about the story.
So where can people find you to book time with you? I'm sure there's so many people now that are ready to make some changes.
Shelli Hendricks (36:06)
I'm so glad you asked. My website is bluehorizon.coach and you can also find me on LinkedIn.
Clint (36:15)
Great.
Greg (36:16)
Thanks so much. It's been a great conversation and I always like talking to Shelly. So Clint, you got to meet someone special.
Clint (36:24)
I'm
so glad you introduced her to me and to our audience. A lot of great advice in there, a lot of great thoughts. Thank you very much, Shelley. Appreciate your time today.
Shelli Hendricks (36:32)
It's been my pleasure, thank you.
Clint (36:36)
And that's another episode of Prompt This.
AI Announcer (36:43)
Alright, listen up. Thank you so much for joining Clint and Greg today. You're gonna want to check out all the Prompt This episodes and my gosh, there's so much more. Dive into those in-depth articles at www.promptthis.ai. Trust me, you don't want to miss it. And hey, don't forget to smash that follow button below. We absolutely cannot wait to have you back. Seriously, it's gonna be awesome. β
